Isk’s a crying shame….

Sometimes it feels like.....

I’m not one for rants (sure uh huh) but it’s been a rough couple of weeks here

Being basically a disabled shut in, my computer is my link to the world, (can’t afford tv and pc) and I dont want it censored, diluted or filtered...... give me the real deal, the full monty, let MY brain do the collating, putting any factoids gleaned into their respective teeny brain cubbyholes....

In the last couple of weeks a web site I stream movies from (no copying) was shut down temporarily when its owner was arrested, some of the other sites that I watch old TV shows from had three of their main storage sites closed down by authorities and of course we have the protect ip legislation looming over our heads but some of these things may not hit close to home

But when I saw this: Monetizing 3rd Party Apps for Eve Online, I thought about this site.....
another site broke down the key bits -> What would it mean here at RPG-E, what if OTHER GAMES demanded fees, could sites like this afford to stay in business??

“Starting this summer you will be able to charge people for usage of your applications, websites and services for EVE Online.

This new system was introduced at the Dev Track and discussed at the Fanfest round tables. We got a lot of good feedback at Fanfest and would like to get more before finalizing the service.


  • Simple process – Sign up on a webpage, get started straight away
  • Inexpensive – $99 per year, no other fees
  • Developer-friendly – Very few restrictions
  • Open-ended – You can charge subscription fees, receive donations, sell your app in an app-store and more
  • Non-commercial websites and apps will now require a (free) license

Grueling legal details

  • CCP will license 3rd party developers to create commercial applications and services created using the EVE API, In-Game Browser, Static Data Export, Image Export and Eve Image server.
  • To become a licensee, developer must enter into a commercial license agreement with CCP. The fee for a commercial license is $99, payable annually by credit card or wire transfer (for identification purposes). We do not require further payments from developer or royalties.
  • Developer can choose how they monetize their app or service, provided that they conform with the EVE EULA and ToS. Examples of monetization could be donations, one-time purchase, in-app purchase, subscriptions or ad-supported sites or apps.
  • For ad-supported ventures, we require that licensed applications or services not be associated with ISK selling/buying, macros or bots. An example of unacceptable monetization would be accepting Google AdWords from sites violating our EULA and ToS. (this is essentially similar to our terms for fansites)
  • CCP may at its discretion, list developers’ application or service, and provide other publicity.
  • Developer may not market their application or service as being associated with CCP in any way, other than to include a logo and credit line identifying application or service as a licensed application for EVE. Or similar attribution as may be required by CCP from time to time.
  • We will continue to provide technical assistance via the Technology Lab forum and IRC channel, but CCP does not offer formal technical support to developers or warrant the API in any way. It’s provided as is.
  • 3rd Party applications and services may not accept PLEX.
  • CCP also allows non-commercial apps and services, subject to simple clickwrap agreement substantially similar to the one that is provided to registered fansites.”

Now I can kinda understand about bots and macros as I detest them, if you don’t have time to play your game then don’t, if you make in game currency with them -> get banned, it’s funny I never joined “cheat” sites to cheat but rather to be able to see how the cheaters were doing it so I could spot them and get them removed from my game; as they almost always destroyed the games economy... and on a sidenote I do dual box I think that makes games more fun as it is often harder to do (at least with characters only a few levels apart)

BUT where do you draw the line, this site has a list of about fifty games it “covers” but to be honest it features about 5 to 7 BUT it is NOT an Eve Online site as it is also a SC2, Rift, WoW, Lotro etc site … should Spitt have to PAY to put up a guide??? If you posted a nice in depth guide at the Eve Online forums and you didn’t have a (free) licence would your account be banned?

About the kindest word I have seen in reading at various forums to describe the actions Eve Online has taken (proposing) is “money grubbing “ the game seems to be on a slight upswing in popularity and now this....

Sheesh, I bet Spitt and owners of other sites like RPG-E feel like:

Having to square off against a large companies legal department....

Of course to (spin)


The issue it might start to look like (one against many or david vs goliath)

* *

Anyways, I guess I am a naturally debative kind of guy …. if you say cat even though I agree, like and honor cat I have to reply dog to keep the conversation (and or debate) going

So can this be good for anybody?

Now I stumbled into this Eve thing, by entering a weird querry string containing something like entertainment + “new controls” + censorship and a thing about Eve appeared, so I read it because it is mentioned at RPG-E and also a good Lotro bud talks about it with a sort of reverence, it at one time seemed to be a very interesting game my mental image of Eve is like combining “Risk” with a space ship FPS game ....

what might be some apps that are (were) popular and that don’t breach the “we require that licensed applications or services not be associated with ISK selling/buying, macros or bots” clause?

I found: EVE Evolved: Top five EVE Online apps :

and these seem like beneficial, straight ahead apps that a player might use but would they PAY for them??

I “make” things for Lotro but other than html have no script writing capabilities so my “creations” are charts and annotated maps, epic book walkthroughs, or my interactive Riddle deed page but what if my game said you have to pay $99.00 or face penalties..... And being beyond broke I un-published all my Lotro things but would I still be “guilty” or “culpable“ if someone copied my stuff (while it was legal) and had it posted at their web/kin site, beyond my physical control??

About the only positive thing I can think of Eve Online demanding a fee would be if they regulated and or gave their approval or guarantee that the app/product that the license was purchased for was malware free; but don’t most freeware app developers routinely provide their source code?

If you are an Eve player who uses apps and even apps of a questionable nature would you voluntarily agree to pay something which you already have and got for free?

If you are an app developer and here's a real post as an example:

from: post 948

“I'm the developer of the Windows Phone Application "EVEolution".

Now i read, that "selling services for ISK" possible will require the commercial license.

Well, i'm selling the app for 150M, because Microsoft already charges me for a "Marketplace Account"with $99. (The app was intended to be free, but because of that charge, i decided to take ISK, to lower the costs, by buying some PLEX).

Now CCP charges me with another $99 ?

So, i now should pay $198 / year for a app that was planned to be freeware?

Well, if this will happpen, i'll unfortunately will stop the project (and others as well).

Hope, that you really will exclude ISK payments and donations from that rule.”

Now, whats to stop someone from taking your product and putting it on a torrent site?

Well, here is what my Lotro buddy who played Eve thought about this:

1) Could this be good for mmorpgs?

Think about this,  would you have to pay lucasarts for a star wars game app? Would you expect to pay paramount for a star trek app?  Could this type of licensing actually result in the elevation of a computer game into pop culture status if it's intellectual property becomes a revenue generator in and of itself.

2) API development etc

IMO there is a clear distinction with apps or services that access game data.  Most games try to balance server load with hardware costs.  They try to keep it in a range where they can keep the hardware costs under control, but they can also keep the price to play down.


So, if devs make apps that access servers for data, who pays for the extra hardware. Either the company charges devs that make the apps, or the players live with increased lag due to the increased load.(or I guess they raise prices)

So -maybe this model would result in a way to foster devs who want to make these apps or have websites with game data, without passing the costs to players not using these apps.

(I wouldn't want extra lag because 1000 people all decided to use an iPhone app to check an auction at nearly the same time. That could happen in any game I suppose.  Heck, with the pvp nature of eve online, that may even be a weapon/tactic.  )

edit-> another thought:


The thought did come to me that there might be other losers if this gets enacted and other game publishers initiate it...

again it goes to sites like this, and the readers/members of sites like this

if you think about it some "cheat" sites are about the last examples of pyramid marketing out there

you know... once upon a time when they first started they paid to join every other game information site (cough cheat site cough) and then populated their site with everything about the games they wanted to cover from those other sites (then when they got big and popular/powerful reamed any one else who was taking their stuff to try and set up competition)

the better game information sites let you at _least_ see the subject headings and the date it was posted so you as a potential paying customer could say to yourself ..."great 4 posts already this month and it's only the eleventh of the month"...

of course the subject headings were edited to be as attention grabbing as possible...

and those sites at one time might have even boasted:  "no need to go anywhere else we go THERE too and there and there and to THAT one too!";  that you've never heard of and they tell you it will be posted at their site (until their memberships at the other sites run out then that boast usually gets quietly removed from the main selling page err the home page of the site

anyway you are too impatient to get to that great exploit mentioned to find something to post to earn free membership so you pay and usually find that the subject title implied more than you received but still it was an interesting idea you didn't have (another reason you didn't have anything to share to get free membership...)

but you vow to FIND stuff and now you have become part of the foundation at the base of the pyramid

you find more stuff and post it (free content to the site that shows activity to another prospective customer) and your reward -> Free Membership Time

keep it up for a half year or so and you might be given the title monitor and more -> Free Membership Time, and now you not only providing free content but providing free labor in the policing of your chosen games forum making it look nice and active but a safe place to post where trolls are vanquished and the young noobie posters are nurtured....

sure did take a long time to get to THIS:

if the admin (the top-stone of the pyramid usually the only one receiving any monies from memberships) has to pay games publishers for continuing to "carry" that game, how many "free" memberships can be given out if THAT game has to be removed all those members interested in it will leave (possibly demanding refunds) how long until the pyramid cracks, crumbles and falls to ruin...?

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